Managing in times of crisis requires a unique blend of leadership, strategic thinking, and adaptability as organizations navigate uncertain and volatile environments. This episode features Paul Falcone, founder of Workplace Leadership Consulting, who discusses the critical role of crisis management in today’s business landscape. With an extensive experience of bridging corporate roles and writing, Paul shares insights from his book The First-Time Manager: Leading Through Crisis which addresses how managers can navigate today’s turbulent environment. This episode offers strategies for managing crises, from personal to company-wide, providing insights for overcoming adversity.

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Paul Falcone – Managing In Times Of Crisis

Introduction

Welcome to the show. We’re a show that guides leaders on how to elevate the workplace. We believe that people are at the heart of successful organizations. Team members’ well-being, their rewards, and their career development are all essential to a happy, healthy, and highly productive workplace. This show discusses the practical and effective leadership strategies for top executives, senior professionals, and talent managers overall.

I’d like to introduce you to a few people. First of all, we have Howard Nizewitz on our show. Howard is a seasoned compensation and HR consultant with over 30 years of experience. We’re very fortunate to have him here. Also, we have Char Miller. She’s a people’s strategist and consultant. She’s been a Chief Human Resources Officer for a number of organizations out there, and she is a serial entrepreneur. She does a lot of her own work. She’s doing some talent management as well with Rich Horwath. Char, you can tell us a little bit more about that as we’re diving into the details of this episode’s discussion because I know a lot of it overlaps with what we’re going to be talking about.

Thank you.

On the show, we welcome Paul Falcone. He is the Founder of Workplace Leadership Consulting. Paul has a rich history as a former CHRO of Nickelodeon and also the Head of International Human Resources at Paramount Pictures. He brings a wealth of knowledge from his high-stakes roles in entertainment, finance, and all those different areas in which Paul has shined. We’re looking forward to knowing all about Paul. One thing that you probably know about Paul Falcone is that he is a writer of many sorts. He writes books like crazy. How many books do you have out there, Paul?

Seventeen, Sam. Thank you for asking.

It took me ten years to get my first book off the ground. Here, you’re writing it like they’re nothing. I’m glad to hear that these thoughts roll off the mind onto the page for you, Paul, because we’re going to dive deeply into those. We’re going to be sharing Paul’s experience in navigating those complex leadership challenges, drawing from his vast experience and his deep understanding of corporate dynamics. Let’s get ready to talk about managing in a time of crisis, specifically around Paul’s book, The First-Time Manager: Leading Through Crisis. Paul, I know that you got done speaking at the SHRM conference. How did that go?

It went well. They had about 25,000 people there. It’s amazing in Chicago at the conference center or the convention center. SHRM puts on the biggest show in the world. They come from all over the globe to attend those webinars, seminars, and whatnot. It was an honor to be there. Thank you for asking. It went great.

On Writing Books

Before we dive into a little bit more about the conference and the themes that you saw there, I’d love to hear a little bit of a story about how you got to where you are and what drove you to write all the books that you write.

I had parallel lives. I’ve been writing since the late ‘90s. I became a columnist for SHRM and I was writing with the American Management Association. Their book publishing division was called AMACOM Books, which was great. They did my first ten books. In 2018, they sold their books division to HarperCollins. HarperCollins created a new imprint called HarperCollins Leadership. I’ve written seven books with them. The 10 plus 7 gets you to the 17. It was really cool.

In the book that I wrote, which came out in May 2024, they put there, “Over 775,000 books sold by this author.” I was like, “Whoa.” It was nice of them to put the number in. It was a little overwhelming, but it’s nice to know that for all those books, the message is getting out there and it’s finding traction globally. That pleases me to no end.

Sam, to answer your question, I had my corporate career path for three decades but I was writing on the side. I always wanted my corporate experience to inform my writing. Even the way I chose the companies that I wrote for or that I worked with, I wanted to make sure I was hitting across multiple industries. For me, it was entertainment, healthcare, and financial services. I wanted large-cap Fortune 500. I wanted a small startup. I wanted in between. I wanted for-profit, non-profit, union, and non-union. I really wanted to touch all that stuff to the degree that I could because I thought it would inform my writing. Ultimately, it did, so here we are. That takes me here. You’re all caught up.

The thing is that there are plenty of professionals out there that know a lot. They’re very experienced. Having a person who wants to share their knowledge with the world as you have and giving that advice through, I imagine millions of people have touched your books. Do you have a sense of really wanting to give back? What was the driver going that route?

I’m a teacher. At my heart, what I love doing is what I’m doing now. As of a few years ago, I kicked off the corporate training wheel, so to speak. I have my own consulting firm. I specialize in management training. I love teaching. I taught at UCLA Extension and their School of Business and Management at night for decades.

Much of this stuff is easier than we’re making it. I keep trying to get that message out there. It’s like, “Be the average bear.” How would you feel if someone spoke to you in that particular way? As an executive coach, I sit with the clients and I’m like, “Be honest. Would you want to work for you?” That’s not an easy question. The follow-up question is like, “If the whole company followed your lead in terms of your behavior or conduct, would you be happy with where you took it?” It’s hard. They’re not easy questions to answer, but it’s about driving that career introspection, Sam. That makes a really big difference.

Managing In Times Of Crisis

It has been in the past couple of years that managers have entertained the idea of self-reflection and thinking about, “How do I show up?” The old-fashioned leadership style was almost like a bull in a China shop. There’s a lot of wisdom that managers and leaders are starting to think about how they’re showing up and how they’re coming off to people. We’ve heard a lot of things from vulnerability to self-reflection, gratitude, and so forth. Where do you see the trends going?

It’s right where you said. Every generation gets to redefine the workplace as I did. I was a young Baby Boomer. I was born in 1963. The Baby Boom ended in 1964 with the introduction of the birth control pill. My mother always told me, “Honey, you made it by that much.” I’m like, “Mom, that’s a little TMI. Too Much Information. That’s okay.”

Every generation gets to redefine the workplace. Share on X

The reality is when you look at Gen Y, the Millennials, the 45 and under crowd, and you look at the Zoomers, the Gen Z, the 25 and under crowd, these are the most studied generational cohorts in world history thanks to the universities, the think tanks, the big 4 accounting firms, and the big 3 management consulting firms. They’re studied. We know what they want. Career and professional development come up as one of their top 3 or top 5 core priorities in every survey that I’ve seen.

The reality is what they’re looking for when you talk about career and professional development is also about that sense of giving. They’re like, “What am I giving forward? What am I giving away? What am I paying forward?” That’s driving the career introspection. The truth of the matter is we should have been doing this a long time ago. It’s not many years ago when the jalopy would come off of the conveyor belt, the manager or the line supervisor had all the answers, or the employees would run up to get time card approval and ask questions.

In this intellectual-based economy, your workers know better than you do what’s going on. They know the clients better. They know the system problems better. They know where the hang-ups are. Your job isn’t to know the job better than them. Your job is to make it safe for them to have enough self-confidence that they can make themselves vulnerable in a healthy sense, share ideas, and come up with solutions. That’s what the innovation movement is all about. It’s not a top-down management approach. It’s not management over. It’s leadership through. It’s knowing how to get the best out of your workers that’s going to make the difference, especially with these younger cohorts or these younger generations. It’s wisdom.

I’ll tell you this too, Sam. We’ve lost the ability somehow as a society to sit around the campfire and pass wisdom from the elders down to the younger generations. We’re too busy. We’re looking at our iPhones and going crazy with all that stuff. The reality is we’ve got to make the space to do that, and that’s what staff meetings and one-on-one meetings are about. That’s what I like to talk about in a lot of my sessions and in my books.

You may say that it’s too busy, but you’re a testament to taking the time to do that with all the books you’ve written. You’ve made it a priority. What were you going to say, Howard?

Is this where technology is a double-edged sword? On one hand, it facilitates a lot of knowledge and analysis that we couldn’t otherwise do quickly. On the opposite end, it eliminates a lot of the face-to-face and heart-to-heart conversations that people want to have.

Yeah, very much so, Howard. When I was in my last job, I was the CHRO of what’s known as the Motion Picture and Television Fund or MPTF. MPTF was primarily a retirement home for everybody in the entertainment business. It was more than that. It was social services, community services, and these kinds of things.

We had a professor from the University of Southern California giving a presentation to us. He said, “Everyone, I have to ask you a question. Who’s the loneliest, most isolated, and most depressed generation on the planet right now?” We all raised our hands and said, “The people who live here in the retirement homes.” He said, “Wrong. That’s number two. The number one group is Gen Z, the Zoomers, or the 25 and under crowd. They’re the first truly digital generation, and because of that, a lot of the socialization was missed.”

Howard, you’re my friend, so I’m going to call you. There was only one phone in your home. Your mom and dad answered it. I’d say, “Hello, Mrs. Cleaver. This is Paul Falcone. How are you, ma’am?” You’d have that kind of communication. Then, cell phones went from child to child. The next iteration was that they stopped using it as a phone. They only used it to IM and text each other. That isolation is real.

There’s an app for that, which is a wonderful idea. It could be really great at augmenting things, but the reality is there’s no app in the world that’s supposed to give bad feedback or negative feedback to somebody. That’s still going to come from that human touch. It’s not what you say. It’s how you say it. You want to make sure that the leadership skills and the communication skills are getting stronger as the technology is getting stronger. Otherwise, we’re going to be consumed by this stuff. That would be a big mistake for society as a whole and the business world in particular.

It's not what you say. It's how you say it. So, you want to ensure that leadership and communication skills grow stronger alongside technology. Share on X

COVID only made it worse.

When you take the Gen Zs, in particular, they missed their high school graduations. Some of us would argue it was their funnest years. Their high school years or their college years were taken away. It breaks my heart, but this is their reality. COVID made it worse when you think of isolation, loneliness, and being pent up in the house.

Howard, to your point, what we struggle with is this return-to-work movement. Do they come back? Do they stay remote? They’re hybrid but they’re two days a week. Do we go to 3 days a week and possibly 4 days a week? This is all part of building the plane while we’re flying it. This is all part of this post-COVID reintegration phase that we’re in. It’s not easy. We have no blueprint for it. We’re figuring it out as we go, which leads to that crisis mentality that a lot of people are suffering from.

Let’s dive into that a bit. We’ve been talking a little bit about some of the rapid changes that have been going on in the world as a result of the crisis and also causing crises as well. Let’s back down to the essence of what we’re talking about, managing in a state of crisis. When something happens, whether it’s a pandemic, a calamity of some sort, war, or simply a tough economy and companies are suffering for it, managers have to make tough decisions and lead through this. Tell us a little bit about the book and the inspiration around the book of managing a crisis there, Paul.

There’s a little story to it, Sam. There was a book out there called The First-Time Manager back in the days when AMACOM was the library of the American Management Association. This was in the ‘80s. The book came out. At this point, it’s in its seventh edition. It sold over 500,000 copies. It still shows up as a number one best-seller. It’s a fabulous book. I read the book when I was preparing.

HarperCollins bought the AMA library in 2018 and created the new imprint, HarperCollins Leadership. One of the things they say is, “This book is selling. Let’s use it, build it as an umbrella, and build titles under it.” They said to me, “Paul, would you write the book The First-Time Manager: HR?” I said, “I would love to write that book.” That came out in May 2024.

They said, “Before you write though, we want to write a book that can pair with all the other books. Someone picks up the book, The First-Time Manager: Sales, but they see, “I also want this other First-Time Manager book.” Could you please give some thought to what that should be?” I said, “I don’t have to give any thought to it. I know the answer. Leading through crisis and disruption. We’re all in that mode. Our wires are exposed. We are going through really intense times. You see it reflected in politics. You see it globally, not just in the United States.

There’s a lot of change going on. There’s more movement at the borders of the industrialized nations than at any time since the end of World War II. We’re going through massive change out there. Your reality becomes clear since everyone is, at this point, healing from COVID, still aware that it exists, but also trying to figure out, “What are our next steps going forward?” That’s the book that I want to write.” They said, “That sounds like a good idea.”

The First-Time Manager: Leading Through Crisis came out in September 2023 and then the new book, The First-Time Manager: HR, the newest book, which is number 17 for me, came out in May 2024. They’re eight months apart or something along those lines. That’s how it all came about. I figured, “Let’s make lemonade out of lemons. We’re all going through a hard time together. Let’s see if we can write about today’s real needs for managers. It’s not even just for first-time managers. It’s part of that series, and I get it, but the book could have been leading through crisis and disruption because that’s where we’re at. We have to be that calming influence.

Leadership wisdom is taking the knowledge but applying it. wisdom is knowledge applied. It’s taking it to the next level and being there to make sure your employees feel heard, feel like you’ve got their backs, and feel like they’ve got psychological safety or whatever you want to call it. They’re like, “When I come to work every day, I can do my best work with peace of mind.” That’s the standard question I ask managers all the time. I’m like, “Ask your employees in your one-on-ones, “Are you able to do your very best work every day with peace of mind?” See where it goes. You’re going to find some really insightful responses when you ask that question.”

We started off the conversation by talking about the past few years and how leadership has changed. It’s changed to be more sensitive. It’s changed to be more people-centric. We’re put into a hard time. All of our employees love us as leaders and, in some places, friends and so forth, and then we’re told, “We need to cut. The revenue has gone down. Sales have gone down.” We’re in hard times as an economy. We’re having an internal crisis. How do we handle that?

The way I structured this book is in three parts. Part one is individual crises that happen with your staff members. Part two is about team and departmental crises. Part three is what you’re talking about, company crises or societal crises. When you’re talking about companies going through downsizing, it’s rough. I come out of the entertainment industry. I was at Paramount Pictures and Nickelodeon for ten years as part of Viacom.

Paramount, I don’t know if you’re aware, has been on the selling block. They’ve had two different attempts to sell. It both fell through. What’s going to happen next? Are they going to break it up? There are so many things out there that are happening. People are afraid not just of the fact that they can lose their job, but they can lose their way of life. If my career was in an industry that’s imploding or melting, what does that say for my ability?

I can’t go to another studio because the studios are going through the same challenges. FOX is already gone. It’s part of Disney. What’s going to happen at Paramount? We don’t know. Are there only going to be 2 or 3 studios left as opposed to 6 or 7 when all is said and done? this massive conglomeration that’s going on is a real movement.

There’s this idea of the M&A HR, the Mergers and Acquisitions piece. Let’s face it. You love them. They’re on your team. You’ve become friends with some of them. Either you know that your job is on the line or you probably are going to have to cut people in your own staff. You’ve got to find that balance in yourself first. While you can’t promise unlimited money and promotions to anybody under any circumstances, you’ve got to help them see the bigger picture.

What I talk to managers about in the companies where I’ve worked and what I do in my training sessions is taking your employees to the 30,000-foot level. You got to get them out of the weeds. We all live in the weeds day in and day out. The problem is if you stay in the weeds for too long, you feel like you’re in a pinball machine and you’re getting banged left, right, and center. You don’t even see the next move coming.

Get them up to that 30,000-foot view so they can look down on what’s happening and take a breather and see things a little bit more objectively, dispassionately, or however you want to say it so that they understand what’s happening isn’t personal.

Also, when you’re at the 30,000-foot view, you can look ahead much more clearly. You can see better where things are moving. After a meeting like that, you got to bring them back down to the weeds because that’s where we live, but you’ll be surprised. There are these little exercises that you can do with your employees to get them thinking about, “Where do I want to go with my career if?”

You’re like, “Let’s assume the worst-case scenario. How are we going to have one another’s backs? How are we going to help each other through? Are we going to feel survivor’s guilt? That’s real. Yet, at the same time, how are we going to help all of us get to their next job that much more quickly?” You got to talk about it and hold it under the lamp. Don’t run away from these things.

You as a leader and an excellent communicator can share what everyone is thinking. It’s the 800-pound gorilla but no one seems to want to mention it. Talk about this stuff. It happens. It’s a rite of passage. We all get laid off. Who hasn’t been laid off? To find someone who’s been with the same company for 40 years is rare, and I know we all know that.

The reality is that what companies are looking for is agility. They want to see people that can bounce back on their feet. They want to see people that can deal with those kinds of setbacks. As a good leader and coach, I’m helping my employees develop that agile mindset. I don’t want them to be afraid of these changes, whether it’s here at this company or anywhere else. That’s the gift that I can give, peace of mind.

I make sure that they have greater self-confidence and help them by knowing that I can help them get this. I’m like, “What do you want to build onto your resume? I don’t know how much time we have, but you can get that exposure here. I can make it safe for you to do here. Maybe you want to get certified in something and focus on education or technical. You tell me what you want to do and we’ll help get there.” That’s a boss I’d like to think that you won’t forget very quickly. Even though you’re all going through adversity and that boss may be the one to lose his or her job, they’re still coming from that selfless leadership standpoint. It makes a tremendous difference when people feel vulnerable.

A leader that cares about their people to an extent and say, “I’m sorry. Your job has to go,” they’re diving in and saying, “This is what we can do to make that transition more successful for you.” They’re taking the extra step of looking beyond the particular situation at hand and seeing how they can go forward together in a way where they’re collaborating. That’s what I’m hearing from you.

Some companies have separation packages and severance. Some companies will give you an outplacement service. Some companies have nothing to give. That may be a budget issue. What I’m saying is regardless of that, you create your own ecosystem as a leader. As an HR person, when I talk to other HR people, I always tell them, “If there’s going to be a termination or a layoff, do not do it at the end of the week, at the end of the day, or Friday at 4:30 where you sweep the person out. Do it early in the day or early in the week. Do it Tuesday morning at 10:00, not Friday afternoon at 4:45.”

A) It’s disrespectful. B) People, oftentimes, once they hear the shock of it, they need to talk. If there’s no one to talk to on Saturday and Sunday, let’s face it. A lot of workplace violence happens on Monday mornings. They’re so angry that the lawsuit becomes a tool of workplace revenge because they feel like they’ve been stripped of their dignity and humiliated when they were most vulnerable.

The language I’ve always taught HR people is, “When you terminate them, say things like, “I’m so sorry this is happening. I thank you for everything you’ve done. You’ve been here for two years. We’ve been great comrades. We’ve worked together. I’m sorry this is happening, but I want to let you know something. If you need help with your unemployment application or your COBRA application, I’m here. If you want to go over your resume, even if you want to do a resume role play, or whatever you’re comfortable with, I’ll always prioritize your call. You call me anytime.”

Let them heal. Let them get on with their lives. Don’t make them feel that body language of, “I can’t believe the company did this. They whisked me out the door on a Friday and they didn’t even say they were sorry it happened.” I’m Italian. I’m a warmer fellow. I feel comfortable. If someone says, “Paul, I’m not comfortable using those words,” don’t use those words.

My best-selling book, the one I’m best known for, is 101 Tough Conversations to Have with Employees. What I tell them in that book is, “I’m mapping out what it could sound like but I’m not telling you to use it exactly. I’m not telling you to have this kind of conversation with your employees like telling you to have this kind of conversation with raising your kids. I don’t know your kids, your parenting style, and how you are parented. To the degree that you can take this template, customize it, and make it your own so that you’re comfortable. You’ll feel more comfortable addr

essing these kinds of things,” which truthfully, most managers tend to avoid. They look the other way. They sweep it under the rug until they have no choice. By then, the feelings are hurt or it’s too late.

It’s really showing that you care about the whole person, not just what they deliver from 9:00 to 5:00 and Monday to Friday. That’s what it’s all about. It’s taking people as whole people with whole lives and showing compassion.

You hit the nail on the head, Howard. What I’ve told my employees is the same thing I’ve told my kids, “I want for you what you want for you, not I want for you what I want for me through you.” People can tell. When they talk about this idea of, “He’s a sincere person. He is an honest person. He’s a trustworthy person,” or whatever, that’s when you’re working for a boss that has your back. Even if you’re going to get laid off or going to get terminated for cause, you still feel like, “The people piece of this was above all of that transactional stuff.”

I want to be someone’s favorite boss. I want to touch people’s careers. There was someone on my team at Nickelodeon who was a manager of HR. She’s the Senior Vice President and CHRO of Dreamworks Animation. She has said to me, “Paul, I could have never gotten here without you.” That’s why we work. It’s not for the paycheck and not for the benefits. It’s for the ability to touch people’s lives. To your point, Howard, when people feel that authenticity, they thrive. You naturally do as opposed to when you feel like your boss is in it for him or herself. You get very defensive. There’s only so much goodwill that you’re willing to give in a circumstance like that.

When people feel that authenticity, they thrive. Share on X

Talent Management

I’d like to comment on that because, at one point, I had a very successful business that I was one of the founders of. The beauty of that was I was the chief HR officer, so I was able to apply my own talent management strategies to my own company. I enjoyed working with CompTeam because we utilized one of our sponsor’s tools called the TMA where we could analyze competencies, capabilities, and drives and also put it throughout the entire stage of the talent cycle for our employees. However, I also knew that this business was in an industry that changes. There’s a lot of volatility in this industry.

On the day of hire, I would strategically talk to my employees about what we could do to strengthen their capabilities and competencies to prepare for the unfortunate day that may come when the positions would be eliminated. This was during the day of hire. Every single one-on-one, we talked about, “Let’s do an assessment for you. Let’s evaluate your ambitions and career goals from a career mobility standpoint.” We prepare that employee to get the skillsets in certain areas where they may be lacking and do some creative assignments, job shadowings, and various things in different areas. For example, one of my employees was interested in compliance and ultimately became a compliance manager.

My question for you, Paul, is how do you feel about that approach? Also, I’m curious what you think about developing that skillset for every level of the organization. When you talk about being above the trees and helping our employees and our leaders strategically including career strategy, what do you think of that approach in a talent management approach?

 

It blows me away. I’m going to assume you had a lot of success with that, Char. People are going to want to know that the company cares about them. That’s rule number one. It’s not just what I can do for the company but also what the company can do for me. It has to go both ways. That’s my initial cut. The second thing though, which is so smart, is you’re creating a mindset. That mindset is so healthy because that will drive them through the remainder of their career.

There are no jobs anymore that are guaranteed. There’s no such thing. There really technically never has been. A lot of us still come from that world. I saw my dad have one job his whole life. At my age as a Baby Boomer, I was able to see that. My kids didn’t see that with me because my jobs were eliminated a bunch of times. We’ve gone through massive cycles and economic changes.

I started my career in the early ‘90s when we were dropping bombs in Iraq. I hate to say that. We saw the savings and loan crisis. In 2001, we hit the dot-com bubble, and in 2008 with the mortgage. It’s been crazy. It’s been hard. The cycles are becoming shorter. For that reason, the kids will look and say, “Dad killed himself. They didn’t guarantee him anything.” My point is your point. Teach them to fish. Don’t give them the fish. Teach them to expect change.

We are technically in Industrial Revolution 4, IR 4, which began in 2016. It is the onset of the digital age with artificial intelligence, blockchain, machine learning, and everything else. We’re at the equivalent of, “This is a wheel and this is fire. Let’s see what you can do with it. “ That’s where we are. We’re starting all over again as a society on this planet. Teach them that change is okay. Teach them not to be afraid of it.

The most important thing you can say is, “Jobs are going to be eliminated, but new jobs will be created too.” They want to start focusing on themselves. What you did so brilliantly there, Char, is teach them about that skill piece. Is it technical skills? Is it soft skills? Is it emotional intelligence? Whatever it happens to be, keep them in that continuous learning mode. They’ll always feel light on their feet. It’ll build their self-confidence. It’ll build their resiliency. They won’t be afraid of getting laid off.

Any employer that’s willing to do that for them thinks of what their needs are. They want career and professional development. What does that mean? It means learning new things. They’re like, “I’m building my resume and my LinkedIn profile, but I’ve also got an employer who’s got skin in the game in terms of my best interests. They’re helping me find where my career interests lie, how I can exploit that, and how I can stay ahead of the learning curve.”

I’m going to assume you have a very low turnover in that organization. People aren’t going to leave that for 20% to go somewhere. They’re like, “I can go somewhere else and get 20%.” You also take the risk of finding a company that’s all in it for them and not for you or getting a manager who spits fire and throws chairs. That’s not worth 20% because, after taxes, you’re not going to see a difference. I’m saying that real retention is an emotional connection both to the organization and primarily to the boss.

It’s also that learning curve. People want to feel like they’re making a difference and they’re learning from these things. As they’re building their own resumes and LinkedIn profiles, the retention rate is stronger at that point. It’s not the opposite. It’s not this idea of, “If they learn things, they’re going to leave us.” It was Richard Branson who said, “Teach them so that they can leave but treat them so that they’ll never want to leave,” or something along those lines. That wisdom is there. You’re ahead of the curve. It’s great.

Sumit, I’m looking at you and there’s a lot of head nodding over there and smiling. What are your thoughts there?

I agree with the Branson code. What I see in the Indian context here is that the leaders are really evolving. We’ve traditionally been used to an almost patriarchal form of leadership where leaders don’t express themselves. It’s unheard of to be vulnerable in front of your people. You’re expected to show some sense of control. You are supposed to behave as if you’ve got it all figured out in your head.

With all the changes in the world that you spoke of, Paul, I’ve grown up through some of them like 2001, 2008, and COVID. Leaders have had to step up and evolve. Sometimes, it can almost feel like an unfair expectation to say that these leaders are like dinosaurs. We sometimes do a disservice to leaders as well. We are not entirely fair in being a little too demanding. It’s very easy to say, “The world is changing, so should you,” but without giving them the tools and without enabling them to take the world forward, is it always fair to ask too much of that?

Sumit, I agree. You have to always stay an individual contributor. Many years ago, when you were on the Ford conveyor belt line and you were the line manager or the supervisor, that’s really all you did. You told people what they needed to do. In a knowledge-based economy, you’re an individual contributor. I don’t know anyone out there who’s a pure manager. Even the CEO isn’t a pure manager because they’ve got a lot of deliverables they have to do themselves. What we’re telling them is, “Not only do you have to do your individual contributor role, which got you into management and congratulations, but now, you have to worry about these four people on your team.” Without the right kind of training, to your point, micromanagement kicks in.

When they were individual contributors, they knew everything that was going on at their desks or in their immediate area of responsibility. They could answer any question that anyone had. They knew exactly what they were working on. You say, “Now, you have four people who report to you,” and they become paranoid. They’re like, “Now, I’m being measured by these four people. I have to be able to answer every question from my boss should my boss ask me.” That uber-control gene kicks in. I’ve seen managers who say, “No one’s allowed to send any emails out of this department without me being copied on them.” I’m like, “You’ve got to be kidding,” but this is where it can go.

My counseling to them is, “First of all, you don’t need to do that. You’ve got to give them traction to figure out the job like you had traction to figure out the job for yourself. You’ve got to give them some room to run. If you’re going to manage them that closely with 4 people, I’m never going to give you 40 and you can forget 400. You need to learn how to scale your career.

Let me give you a suggestion of how to do that. Have lunch-and-learns with your team and talk about what’s worked for you, what’s working for them, and what we can all agree on going forward as far as these particular aspects of the role. Those could be the customer care role, the technical support role, or whatever it happens to be. Once you’re all aligned and on the same page, you can sleep better at night.

You still have the right to say, “I don’t want anything going out as a finished product that I have vetted or viewed.” That’s fine, but you can’t manage each step of the way. You will give yourself a heart attack. You won’t be able to scale your career and your employees are not going to have any fun with this whatsoever.” That’s where wisdom comes in.

I agree with you. I agree with that point of view that minting them as a new manager without giving them the wisdom makes it very difficult for people to feel like they have to do two things. They have to do their own job and they have to worry about other people. In a lot of companies, it’s like, “Here you go. Do it.” It’s not enough.

Using AI

I am not working in a traditional corporate setting. As a chief HR officer of my organization, oftentimes, the feedback that primarily clinical leaders would tell me is they didn’t have the time to do the one-on-ones, the lunch-and-learns, and that they were stretched too thin. Their bandwidth was way uncontrollable.

I’m hoping that with AI, we can leverage the technology to help reduce our emails and help streamline our office activities so that we can be on the floor and have those one-on-one conversations. If I have 40 employees, which oftentimes, unfortunately, many of our clinical leaders on average had at any given time, it was very difficult to even do development plans with our employees and have those face-to-face conversations to talk about perhaps the crises on an individual level that our employees were facing. This may be a positive. What are your thoughts about that, Paul, as far as using AI and other technology to help us spend more time with our employees?

As long as it’s an augmentation and not a replacement, it’s fine, Char. To me, if it can lighten things up, administratively compartmentalize emails, and save time, this is fine. I’ll tell you this. This is what I’ve always talked about in my books because it worked for me throughout my career. When employees want career and professional development, that comes in two buckets. Bucket number one is recognition for a job well done. Everyone likes that. That’s the psychic income that keeps people happy.

I have too many managers who tell themselves these narratives that are silly. They’re like, “To be an effective manager, you must be feared.” Wrong. I don’t want to work for someone I’m afraid of. They’re like, “I never want to call out my people and say they’re doing a great job. It’s going to go straight to their head. They’re going to want more money and a bigger title.” I’m like, “Wrong on that one too.” The psychic income piece is the recognition of a job well done or for extraordinary effort. I’m not saying to give it out to everybody because they showed up, but when they earn it, give it.

The second piece of that bucket though is giving real-time constructive feedback. They want to learn their craft. They want to master their trade. They want to learn their job. How do you give that feedback? Giving that feedback becomes a really critical piece here because it’s not what you say. It’s how you say it.

You can talk to people about difficult things, like, “I’ve got someone “with an attitude problem.” Don’t tell them, “You’ve got an attitude problem,” because those are fighting words. You never want to document it because a court will invalidate the documentation and say that the progressive discipline you gave the person doesn’t even count. More importantly, don’t use it verbally. People may not say it, but they’re going to think, “I don’t have a problem. You have an attitude problem. It’s you, not me.” All of a sudden, they’re not listening because they’re fighting with each other.

If you could say something to somebody like, “They say the most important decisions in your career are going to be made when you’re not in the room. That’s the same for you as it is for me and for everybody else. I feel like there’s something that may be missing awareness that could potentially hold you back over your career when you’re not in that proverbial room at some point in the future to defend yourself. Is it okay with you if I share with you what it looks like from my vantage point from time to time?” There you go. You can talk to them about things. I wouldn’t use the word attitude, but you can enter into a conversation that’s structured in their best interests so they can get into that conversation.

To finish my thought really quickly, Char, I would talk to my employees about, “You have an annual review but it’s broken down into quarters. Every quarter, you are responsible for two things. 1) Putting the time on my calendar and 2) Developing the agenda for the meeting. I will give you guys a list of everything that I’m going to be looking for, including how you’re doing towards your goals, your career, professional development interests, in terms of where you think you might need more training, in terms of where you’d like to get greater organizational exposure, or in terms of things you might want to do outside the organization as a community ambassador. Whatever is important to you at that point in time is something that I want to listen to. To the degree that I can, I’m going to help you get there.”

Those touch bases didn’t take any work or prep on my part. It was putting them in a situation where they could motivate themselves. I can’t motivate you and you can’t motivate me. All motivation is internal. You can create the right circumstances where people can motivate themselves. I’ve always found that people enjoyed those meetings. At first, they are like, “I don’t have time for that.”

After a while though, I got them thinking in terms of this achievement mindset. It’s like, “What are you doing to decrease cost, increase revenue, save time, improve customer satisfaction, and qualify what you’re doing in terms of 1 of those 4 things? We can even help work on quantifying it together so you can put a bullet on your resume or on your LinkedIn profile.” It’s a mindset change. Artificial intelligence, the tools, and the apps are going to help us with that, but you can’t replace the human connection. It’s more needed now than probably ever.

Importance Of Communication In Leadership

Thanks for that, Paul. Before we depart on this topic, one thing that you mentioned is communication. It seems to be coming back to communication is critical in leadership. We talked about dropping some bad news and taking them up to the 30,000-foot level. I want to dig into that a little bit more. Sometimes, I find that we can bring people up to share some of the problems. Sometimes, that can be shocking or overall quite alarming to them. You can scare your people. Is there a balance between what you’re sharing and the level of detail you’re sharing?

Yeah. There’s always going to be a little bit of brackets around it, Sam. I don’t want to scare them either, but I also don’t want to sugarcoat things. It’s almost like the equivalent of when you have to give constructive feedback to someone, you need to give it to them in real time. Don’t save it, like, “We’re going to do the annual review in three months. I’ll cover it then.” Don’t do that. They need feedback now. It’s only fair to them. If it turns out that I’m aware of something that I am at liberty to share with my team, I am going to want to make sure they hear it from me first and not from the corporate grapevine.

I was a columnist for SHRM. I had written an article on this idea of making it safe for employees to talk about personal things in the office in a controlled setting. I opened it up by saying, “Normally, I would’ve never done this in my career. If it’s personal, it doesn’t belong here.” I’m not asking them to talk about blue hats versus red hats. This is not what it’s about. It’s about how things are affecting you.

As an example, at the Motion Picture and Television Fund, when we were going through COVID full born, we were a retirement home, so the population was very vulnerable. We lost residents, patients, and employees back in 2020. We had the National Guard on campus giving us nurses and doctors. This was intense. The nation first found out about COVID from a retirement home up in Seattle, if you remember that. The point was everybody in our corporate office decided they would work remotely but HR wanted to be there. I really admired that and I respected that. They said, “When our employees need us, we want to be here for them.” We did it that way.

At the same time, there were so many changes coming down the pipe. There were changes in terms of masking, in terms of vaccinations, and in terms of who got sick, who was in the hospital, and who was on a vent. There was so much going on that you could feel in the room the sense of tension. I would tell people on my team, “At 2:00, let’s meet. Do me a favor. If you’re all good at 2:00, let’s take 30 minutes. I want to check in.”

In that meeting, I would say, “I want to know how you’re doing. If there’s anything I could take off your desk to help you with this right now and get through this. If you need additional time off, you don’t have to use your PTO or your vacation time. You can have time off. I know how hard you’re working. I know how intense this is for you right now. Let’s talk about how we help each other and how we have one another’s backs.” Not a lot of things came out of that. People didn’t say, “I want a day off tomorrow.” I didn’t get that. What I got was, “I really appreciate the fact that you take the time to check in on us and make sure that we’re okay.”

That goes, Howard, to what you were mentioning earlier. It’s that expression that people don’t care what you know until they know that you care. That caring piece is what drives it. It is a relationship-driven issue that keeps people loyal to a company and loyal to a boss. It’s not on the right or left side of your brain. It’s in your heart.

There’s the Robert Greenleaf essay of 1970. He wrote The Servant as Leader. That was many years ago. It’s as relevant if not more so now than it was back in 1970. They want people who can pay it forward. They want people who can give that gift to themselves. The universe knows you can’t give away anything you don’t already have. Being able to give it away confirms for you that you have it. The question for the employees on my team has always been, “What do you have to give?”

This is the wisdom piece that I’m talking about. The mechanics of HR or whatever discipline you’re in whether you’re the business owner of the company, that’s fine. That’s knowledge. Wisdom is knowledge applied. How do you take it so that people can see themselves in the light of giving things back, paying things forward, and making their lives a gift? That’s what I tend to talk about.

Not everyone has the same background or philosophy. I get that. To the degree that you can get people to that point where they can find themselves and give people back to themselves, if you do that no matter what the conditions are, you could lead through any crisis. People will constantly seek you out because you’re that calming voice. You’re that reassured one. You’re the confident one.

If you’re a business owner, it’s great if it’s coming from you. Sometimes, you won’t have the luxury of that. You may be the head of HR and your CEO is freaking out and that’s who you report to. You got to calm her down. That’s fine. That happens too. To the degree that you can define yourself through these difficult times, you make your life easier. You can still smile. You can still laugh. That’s critical in this day and age.

 

Key Takeaways

Wise words, there, Paul. Thank you so much for sharing all your knowledge with us. As we wrap up our discussion, what are the top things that you want leaders to walk away with from this discussion?

What I would say, Sam, is there’s a reasonableness issue. Remember when we talked earlier about this idea of you wanting to work for you or if the whole company followed your lead, would you be happy with where you took it? Don’t come across as tone-deaf. A quick example is the whole return to work thing. From what I’ve read, CEO surveys are saying that by late 2026, they’re hoping that employees are going to be back to work regularly and full-time as if COVID never happened. I don’t know that that’s ever going to be the case.

There are pros and cons to both sides of the argument. To the degree that you can incorporate both sides of the argument in the communications that you’re sending out via email or how you’re talking to your employees during your all-hands meetings, it’s like, “As a CEO, I’m not worried about productivity or paranoia. I trust you. I do worry about the loss of our culture as an organization. I worry about collaboration. I worry about the idea of innovation. Can we innovate electronically the same way we can when we’re sitting around the campfire, so to speak, talking to one another and laughing with one another?

I’m also concerned about Gen Z. I’ve read the fact that Gen Z Zoomers are the loneliest, most isolated, and most depressed generation on the planet. COVID didn’t help. You need mentors. I needed a mentor when I grew up. You don’t have them or it’s much harder to have in that kind of environment. For those of you working remotely, I know you’ve read the same things that I do. If there’s going to be a layoff, the remote employees are going to be the first ones to go because no one knows who they are. These are all real things.

What we think would make the most sense for our organization at this point is we are back to two days a week. We think moving to three days a week would be healthy. What’s important is we’re going to do those days on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday so everyone is together on those days. We could be empty on Tuesday and Thursday. I don’t care.

On the days that we’re coming in, we all want to be here. There will be no meetings remotely. We’re going to do them all in conference rooms. We’re going to spend some time getting to know one another better.” If you give that kind of brilliance, you are going to get people biting because they’re happy about that. They want to work for that kind of organization.

Thank you so much, Paul. I know that they can pick up 1 of your 17 books so they get a whole host of information. If they would like to reach out and like to look into your services, Paul, how would you respond to that?

That’s nice, Sam. Thanks, everyone. I have a web page, which is PaulFalconeHR.com. It’s easy enough there. I also have a blog. You can subscribe to the blog if you like this stuff. The other thing is I’m on LinkedIn. @PaulFalcone1 is my name on LinkedIn. Reach out on LinkedIn. Feel free to visit the website. Feel free to subscribe to the blog. Whatever I can do to help will be my pleasure.

A few years ago, Sam, when I decided, “I’m going to start my own consulting firm,” it’s all in that spirit of giving back. This is the stuff that I love to do. I’m fortunate that I’m able to do it because I’ve been preparing to launch my consulting firm for 30 years, at least in the back of my head. I’m fortunate to have a nice network. The message resonates. Everyone wants to be a good guy. Everyone wants to be a good person despite the craziness that surrounds us. I’m trying to give people back to themselves so they can find that inner peace, peace of mind, and inner wisdom to help them lead others and touch other people’s lives more effectively.

That’s great advice.

Thanks, Paul. It’s been a true pleasure. Thank you, everyone, for tuning in to the show. We’ll see you next time.

Thanks, Sam. Thanks, everybody.

Thank you, Paul. We appreciate it.

Thank you, Paul.

 

Important Links

• Workplace Leadership Consulting
• The First-Time Manager: Leading Through Crisis
• The First-Time Manager
• The First-Time Manager: HR
• The First-Time Manager: Sales
• Resource Blog | Paul Falcone HR
• @PaulFalcone1 – LinkedIn

 

About Paul Falcone

Paul Falcone is the principal of Paul Falcone Workplace Leadership Consulting, LLC, where he specializes in keynote presentations, corporate leadership training, executive coaching, and facilitating corporate offsite retreats. With a distinguished career in human resources, Paul has held senior leadership roles, including Chief Human Resources Officer (CHRO) at Nickelodeon and Head of International HR for Paramount Pictures. His expertise spans various industries, including entertainment, healthcare/biotech, and financial services, with experience in international, nonprofit, and union environments.

Paul is also a bestselling author with HarperCollins Leadership, the American Management Association, and SHRM, known for books such as “96 Great Interview Questions to Ask Before You Hire,” “101 Tough Conversations to Have with Employees,” and “2600 Phrases for Effective Performance Reviews.” His latest work, “The Paul Falcone Workplace Leadership Series,” provides comprehensive guidance on the talent management lifecycle, from ethics to leadership strategies.

A regular contributor to SHRM’s “HR Magazine” and a member of the SHRM Speakers’ Bureau, Paul is a certified executive coach through the Marshall Goldsmith Stakeholder-Centered Coaching program. He also serves as an adjunct faculty member at UCLA Extension’s School of Business and Management. For more information, visit Paul Falcone’s website.