Several studies show that C-suite leaders are adversely impacted by substance dependency. Whether it is drugs, alcohol, or medication, this often-overlooked aspect of leadership leads to poorly performing and highly discriminative teams. In this episode, Char Miller of HR With A Heart discusses some effective strategies to address substance dependency at the C-suite level. She explains how to get rid of the allocentric culture and stereotyping individuals who struggle with addiction. Char also talks about the potential improvements teams could experience by upscaling their skills in dealing with the negative impact of substance dependency.

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Listen to the episode here

Char Miller – The Executive Oversight: Substance Dependency

We have a special event. We have our very own Char Miller who is going to be our main host and discuss some very important details. We’re going to be diving into a critical and often overlooked aspect of leadership, the executive oversight of substance dependency. Guiding our conversation is going to be Char. She’s a trailblazer in talent management and the Founder of HR With A Heart. She has many years of experience. Char has shaped careers around HR and with her people. I call her a serial entrepreneur. She’s always doing something new. She has an exciting new path that she wants to share with us. I’m happy about diving in there.

She’s been doing some transformative work at the Strategic Thinking Institute. She has significant experience with giants such as Kaiser Permanente, and Vail Resorts, and has honed her expertise over the years. Char is going to help us understand the important topic of substance dependency, especially among the leadership team she’s going to help guide us on how leaders should be thinking about this topic to help their organization and to stay out of hot water overall. Welcome, Char. 

Thank you for having me. 

Looking Back

I know that you’re no stranger to the show. You’ve helped shape this show over the years. One thing that I would like to do because I know that a lot of our readers know you from your time here. Let’s dive a little bit into the details, into your background, which drove you to have a passion in this area to help leaders become better individuals and leaders themselves. 

I’m not going to go over my CV, but I have a strong HR talent management strategy background. I jumped into entrepreneurship. I was a Founder and Owner of a very successful multimillion-dollar business because I applied my talent management strategy, aspects and vision to my company, which is a real joy as an own business owner. I’m doing HR consulting. I’m very thrilled to be working with CompTeam along the way. I’ve been doing that for the last many years. I am passionate about talent management strategy. I am about progressive and innovative talent management strategies, and not the typical type of programs and flavor-of-the-month programs that often many HR departments and talent management departments have. 

I’ve been very interested in a more provocative, different type of mindset. I’m looking at DisruptHR as one of the groups that I might join here in the Denver area. I got excited about this particular topic. I’d like to share with you a quick story of why. I live part-time in Puerto Vallarta and part-time out of Denver. People say, “You probably are retired down there.” I’m not retired. I’m trying to work down here.

You’re living the life.

It’s difficult. Now I’m looking at palm trees and I have a five-minute walk to the beach. I have to be productive, effective, and self-driven to ensure that I’m being revenue-generating and partnering with CompTeam and my other consulting type of programs. It was interesting. One morning I was sitting on the back patio. I’m always a story person. I was looking at my back patio. I was noticing neighbors popping beers, smoking cigarettes and doing all that stuff on the patio at 9:00 AM. They’re in vacation mode. Meanwhile, I’m doing these forums and I’m sitting here trying to work. I was thinking, “That’s interesting. I’d like to be on vacation,” then I started thinking about the executive experience. I was thinking about how executives deal with dependency and that type of thing. 

I decided to do some research. I found some amazing research like Andrew Huberman, which I’ll talk to a little bit later. I started analyzing drug, alcohol and medication dependency. I got very excited about the fact that there’s some evidence that the C-Suite or the executive teams can be impacted ne negatively by substance abuse. Not only throughout their organization but also reflecting on themselves as a team. I was originally looking for more of my personal self-improvement, but then I realized, “This is a real oversight for our executive teams.” I started researching this. I started delving into some statistics. This is phenomenal. 

I went to the National Center for Drug Abuse Statistics, which anyone can go to and Google it. Do we realize that 21.4% of people 12 and over have illegal drugs or misused prescription drugs in 2023? The data is fat is staggering. I started exploring, “Let’s look at the actual statistics for the executive, C-Suite level and strategy level positions.” I saw statistics anywhere from 9% to 13%, depending on what data you’re evaluating. C-Suite executives having problems with alcohol or other drugs. Sam and I are talking about this. Let’s say that 1 out of every 10 of your C-Suite, based off general statistics has some dependency problem. According to the statistics, I evaluated, that’s a good number. Don’t you think? A statistic guy, don’t you agree 

Substance Dependency: Statistics show that around 9% to 13% of C-suite executives are having problems with alcohol or other drugs.

If you’re a large organization, that means that somebody on your team has a problem with those stats. 

I started evaluating the impact of the organization on or overall business results and also looking at the executive teams, the capability to think, plan, act strategically, and set direction. It creates an advantage in achieving their goals. I’ve become very strategic these days because my partnership with the Strategy Thinking Institute with Rich Horwath, I started evaluating, “How is this impacting our business?” I want to create a meme. I like to create memes. I’d like to have the hungover elephant in the boardroom.

If those of us who are “seasoned” have spent a lot of time in the boardroom, C-Suite level, and we can tell when somebody maybe is hungover, not on their game, not thinking clearly, unfocused or scatterbraiding all over the place, and it impacts the dynamics of that team. If you have poor meeting management issues, talk about the overall impact. That’s what I want to talk about because ultimately, I think if an executive team wants to have that competitive advantage, and they want that organization to differentiate themselves, rooted on all their capabilities and the talent of their capabilities, let’s think about the executive oversight around dependency in the workplace as well as a C-Suite. Take a look at the mirror, look at your own elephants in your room. How is this impacting your overall business?
How is that impacting your competitive edge out there in the marketplace? I think this is a real huge topic. 

Substance Dependency And Allocentrism Culture

There can be a lot of things related to this. There’s the illegal drug use that’s bad. There can be prescription drugs that are prescribed due to certain medical issues that may be impacting performance without that executive’s, understanding or may need to be told and so forth, and then common elements. We are all familiar with the long COVID symptoms. That can be challenging. There are things that can impact our mental performance on the job. It’s important to be inquisitive and go forward with a helpful attitude when addressing these issues.

It’s hidden. I’ll be talking about the stigma of addiction. Our society has a huge stigma about stereotyping and discriminating against people who struggle with addiction. People of an executive level particularly. A real healthy thing to do for an executive team is to eyes wide open. There are HR, ADA and confidentiality matters with this topic. I do think that there are effective strategies to open up this discussion without targeting the elephant in the room, without targeting that individual or couple of individuals in the room. I want to say that addiction does not discriminate. You can be a high-power executive in the C-Suite or you can be a bricklayer in Detroit. This comes from Betty Ford, the nonprofit addiction Center. They talk about it. It does not discriminate, but sadly, executives want to cover that up. I didn’t know this term, and I don’t know if you’ve heard this term. Have you heard of the  Allocentrism Culture?

I haven’t. 

This is quite fascinating. Allocentrism is a collective personality that attributes whereby people center their attention on the actions of other people rather than themselves. It is a psychological dimension, which corresponds to the general cultural dimension of collectivism. I’m picking on the United States, and I can do that because I’m in Mexico. Alcohol drug dependency and the pharmaceutical epidemic is seriously impacting our society. As we all know I don’t need to preach to the choir here, everything’s based around drinking every single thing we know, every event, weddings not everyone, but a majority. Statistics glaringly show that. When we talk about the competitive advantage of even our overall country, which I’m not going to be political, why are we not addressing Allocentrism society as a society? I can tell you companies can do that. 

Me in this fascination, I’m like, “I didn’t even know that term existed.” I will say that in certain generations that are not mine, there is a real movement about reducing, substance abuse dependency, becoming clear-minded and clear-focused and focused on driving that, “I’m going to do some more research on this.” It’s a real turnoff to our employees, particularly newer employees who see an executive team that is not on their game, that is not strategic or focused.

Media Portrayal And Peer Pressure

One thing you brought up is media and things that are shown on TV and so forth, and we’re still seeing a lot of substance abuse in regular programs. I don’t know how many movies I’ve looked at in the past that have drug abuse marijuana, and heavy alcohol usage. This is something that still seems to be mainstream in media overall. You’re saying that you’re seeing a new movement of people bringing awareness to substance abuse and trying to curb that, especially in business. 

I know this is not an official resource, but when you go out on YouTube, I was looking at Andrew Huberman and I have what his background is here, I’ll explain it in a second. Without data 100% instantiating, there is a real movement where people are starting to realize that this is impacting your ability to succeed and to get ahead. I can go into all the issues that some of our younger generation is facing with housing and the ability to climb the career ladder. If you’re constantly hungover or dependent on substances that will impact you. I do believe that this is a movement. I think that our more seasoned executives, or even newer executives need to be aware of that. When we’re talking about attracting and retaining the very best talent,t you need to be aware of the reputation you have as a C-Suite. 

I want to give a quick story. I won’t tell you which organization I worked with, but I used to go to a lot of strategic offsites with the top 300 leaders of the system. I remember my boss, who is about two levels ahead of me would get his favorites in the HR team, and drink scotch and cigars. I wasn’t invited to those happy hours. I don’t know why, maybe because I was a mother. I don’t know, but it was like high school. I was like, “I’m not cool. I don’t drink scotch and cigars. I wouldn’t mind trying that.” I felt very much excluded. The point is that even in my 30s, I felt the negative effect of not being socially accepted in that dynamic. There’s a major momentum going on in that area. 

You’re bringing up that past experience you have. That’s where some leaders have gone wrong with having alcohol and different things like that in certain events. It seems to encourage certain behaviors and potentially exclude others from being involved in some situations like that. I’ll just allude to business or the C-Suite, but our children are facing the same type of situation, peer pressure.

I need to set an example for our children, youth and our employees. I don’t want to come across as Mary Poppins or whatever you want to call me, because I too, like to have a glass of wine. I do like to have social hours with my colleagues. I don’t say that I would not support that. However, why not have some mocktails or something that’s not focused on drugs and alcohol? I think social things are good, but let’s maintain those and make sure that they are respective of other people’s beliefs and the fact that some people don’t drink, don’t smoke and do all those things because you’re ostracizing a segment of your employee population when you do.

Better Awareness

What are the ways that leaders should be moving forward with being more aware of potential substance dependency and addiction among our people? What is the best way forward here? 

I believe that by acting as the role model and the influencer of the organization we are the compelling force that affects others and our actions, behaviors and opinions. Executives, 1) Being aware. As we know, HR typically offers things like EAP programs. We talk about the substance abuse policies, if there’s reasonable suspicion of somebody being drunk or under the influence at work. However, we don’t look at the overall cognitive impacts and the lack of clarity and focus when people, even from binge drinking from the last weekend on Tuesday, how that impacts your overall discussion and clarity in the boardroom. In my opinion, I think it’d be good. This is a very sensitive topic. I think that we need to maybe be more vulnerable as a C-Suite team and not target particular people in the room. 

Let’s talk about a particular strategy to become aware of. for example, I started going out, doing some research, and looking at the impact of the statistics on organization, and organization effectiveness, and this is incredible, but looking at the physical impacts of how this affects you. I pick on drinking for a second. Your brain shrinks through the limbic system, and your frontal lobe is impacted because you don’t know right from wrong, and then the amygdala. Overly sensitive to extreme moods resulting in worry. You kill white blood cells in the brain and there are all kinds of things.

Substance Dependency: Alcoholism shrinks your brain through the limbic system. You do not know right from wrong, and you become overly sensitive to extreme moods.

Ethanol acid and needle hide to acetate. If that is in your brain, how are you thinking clearly and cognitively, doing strategy planning, goals, initiatives, and assuring that your leaders are being impactful? I suggest that maybe the talent manager or HR executive talk about this in their talent management strategy. Let’s talk about the overall statistics in our organization. Let’s talk about how we can be on our game and get that competitive advantage. Let’s look at the physical impacts on our executive team and how we can make a diff a difference. If there is favoritism going on in various behaviors in the overall organization such as social hours or happy hours, that’s great. People can do that. Let’s evaluate how that’s impacting. You remember the holiday parties were drunken Ralph or whoever standing on the table. It’s like a Seinfeld episode.

You’re saying important for leaders to make sure that when they’re having those events, there are alternatives, those mocktails as you were talking about, making sure people feel comfortable, being a non-drinker or not participating in those activities, making them feel welcome and included still. There is something that leaders can do to bring awareness to the issue. It is quite important. Are there programs out there to help guide leaders to introduce more awareness around dependency? 

There are internal and external resources in this area. When you’re evaluating your organization, take a look at employee engagement and education around having a safer workplace. You already have policies, or most companies, at least larger ones that evaluate it. We already have expectations as employers, particularly in safety-sensitive areas. I think sometimes we zone out on those types of dialogues because we don’t think dependency impacting overall safety. Also, regarding your EAP program, as an HR person, I know many of our employees say, “Go to EAP. We have behavioral support,” or particularly in the healthcare background, which is mine, but to support professionals when in need. Encouraging your executives and employees to take advantage of those benefits. 

Looking at your overall benefit programs that support dependency and encouraging people to utilize those resources without the stigma or the negativity of if somebody does need to go out into a rehab program or take some mental health time off that we don’t stigmatize them and penalize them if like an executive or a professional go out and take a hiatus for a couple of months and then come back. Opening up that trust and safety and dialogue without impacting confidentiality, but I think it’s important to talk about that. Also, looking at your return to work programs and evaluating, “Is it clear? Is it defined? Is it openly discussed?” I’ve done some research. I have found various, some I’m not advertising, but there are actual executive C-Level rehab facilities. 

Granted, they’re probably a little more kush than your typical rehab facilities. Looking at that resource and being open-minded to be able to see that. It’s difficult. I have sat and seen some of my colleagues and probably even myself at times when I was not on my game. I’m being quite honest with you. To be open about it and say, “We had that executive meeting.” We were talking about various strategies and cactus. I felt that we were going off the discussion and identifying well, “I see some signs of something going on with you personally, physically,” and that thing. Starting to open it up. If leaders are aware of that and then aware of those resources to provide our employees and leaders, then the stigma will be reduced and we can openly talk about it and address those concerns. 

As we’re thinking about the main things that we want our readers to be aware of in this conversation, what are the top things that you want our readers to walk away with?

When I talk about the executive oversight, I think about, “What is your competitive advantage?” I did talk about this earlier. Let’s go back to the 1 out of every 10 statistics. Can you imagine the difference that would you make if you helped to address this problem in not only your C-Suite but also your overall organization? Can you imagine if you can make a 10% difference in your organization’s effectiveness to reach skills, strategies, goals, competencies, and capabilities, if you were able to take that edge up in the marketplace, what that could do for your overall bottom line and your overall return on investment with your talent and your teams?

I’m not a statistic person, but according to the National Safety Council and the cost and overall impact to an organization of the executive administrative management, and finance sectors of organizations, turnover costs with dependency issues, per person, impact about $7,629. Absentee cause cost is over $4,281. Healthcare cost is over $1,000. It’s about $15,000 per individual. That’s on your C-Suite. If you take a look at your entire organization and do some analysis, you’ll understand that. This is a real cost impact to the organization, 

Substance Dependency: According to the National Safety Council, the turnover costs with substance dependency issues per person impact about $7,629.

I think that this is an oversight. Oftentimes we sit in these meetings, we fire drill, and we have tendency to be very tactical and look at our daily activities. Oftentimes, since I am working with the Strategy Thinking Institute as a strategy skills consultant, I’ve been through all their training and delightful resources, I’ll tell you that if we’re not thinking strategically, and we’re not making strategy as part of our daily discussion and weekly discussion, and we only have a strategy plan that happens once a year, that’s a problem because it’s not on top of mind. Upscaling your skillset in that area, I think that the alcohol, drug and even medication dependency is impacting our overall ability to succeed.

In addition, I make one other comment. As a personal entrepreneur and a business owner, look at the fact that you’re the CEO and Founder of your company. How are you going to succeed as a consultant, as a small business owner, as a small startup, if you have an issue with these types of things? If you’re working to numb yourself and not address your own personal issues, I think it’s helpful for you to take a look at yourself and think about, “How can I improve my game?” To all those business people out on LinkedIn and everything, I’m going to be vocal, not necessarily on this topic, but how do you improve your overall performance and how do you drive results and change your behavior so that you can positively impact and include others to do the same. 

As a leader, an owner of my own business, and growing as a professional through my years, when I was younger, you can get away with more. It’s like your body can easily recuperate and you can get away with a lot. Your brain is at the top of its game. As we all age as leaders and executives, we need to make some hard choices in what we’re doing in our daily lives to ensure that we retain that competitive edge. The mind does slow with age and that’s true. 

It doesn’t mean that we become more foolish. It’s known that older people can become very wise. It’s nothing to do with that. As far as processing and so forth can be slow. That’s a known physical fact. Making sure that we are living a healthier lifestyle is critical. Ensuring that we’re quite aware of our mental health. We’re taking time for ourselves. We’re taking time to take breaks and enjoy our life. We’re thinking about curbing back some of those dependencies or addictions whether it be caffeine, alcohol or whatever it is. Those are things that can be trimmed away to help us perform better as we age. As leaders, increasing exercise and trimming off some of those negative habits can help us be more competitive and stay on top of our game. Frankly, it’s our duty to do when we’re leading people. We have a lot of things and responsibilities on our shoulders. We need to be more responsible.

I shared my very vulnerable personal story where I wanted to look at my own health and fitness like a lot of people trying to take off the last pounds I need to take off and tone up and all that. I’ve been trying to take more walks on the beach and that kind of thing. I’m going to bring up Andrew Huberman. He’s a tenured professor of Neurology at Ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine. I’m not here to plug him because he doesn’t even know me from Adam. What was fascinating is I’ve always known about the dependency in my family because I do have some of those issues on my mom’s side of the family, I knew that in order for me to be the top-notch executive, I needed to address it.

It was fascinating when I looked at the actual physical aspects of, “Why am I dealing with anxiety? Why am I dealing with worry? Why do I feel like I need to numb something to be ahead when I didn’t drink for a month?” You always hear about these dry Januarys, Octobers and various things. Do you realize on day two, I was literally looking at my beautiful palm trees here? The palm trees look clearer. There’s a little bird in the tree. I was like, “I didn’t notice that hummingbird.” I was hearing things. My senses were awakening. That was on day two, and that was completely sober. Even on the weekends, nothing.

I watched the behaviors of my lovely friends and the people that I surround myself with. I was like, “This is cool. I’m totally sober watching other people.” I was able to process and articulate myself better, more focused, clear-eyed and make better judgments. I started delving into the research for my own personal, and then that’s when I became aware that this is an executive oversight as well. I think that executives obviously are A+ students or maybe they were, unless they drank too much in college, speaking of frets and stuff.

However, I think that scientific research-driven data is interesting. That’s a very good way to catch the attention of those intellects on our team. Honestly, as a talent management strategist, I’ve been there at the table, “Let’s work on our employee engagement plan. Let’s work on turnover. How can we have quicker hiring times?” HR people in general, do not typecast us, but I think that we tend to focus on the tactical things that we can do in HR to make a difference in our overall cultural culture.

Oftentimes, we don’t look at overall cultural behaviors and the underneath of what’s happening in the underbelly of the organization. I had a talent management strategy that was size 8 font, which was 8 pages long. I wish back in 2016 when I grafted that monster of a talent management strategy when I was working with the Strategy Skills Institute to refine that to keep it to 1 or 2 pages. Secondly, I think that it’s not the tactical activities. We already do hiring retention initiatives. We already know that we have a shortage of talent, and there’s a shortage of talented workforce. We know that high-tech talent is hard to find. High-tech talent, attracting and retaining excellent with the AI. We don’t have the capabilities and competencies of our talent.

I recommend that we all perhaps take some blinders off, dust off that talent management strategy plan that’s 8 pages long and size 8 font where we have to have our little reading spectacles to read it I. Do you not agree that if we start talking about these type of more interesting topics that impact overall be behavior that our executives would be in tune to discuss? What do you think?

You’re providing right now a great service in talking about this particular issue. It is not something that was on the radar. In HR, we’ve been talking about the importance of mental health and this is part of that. It is a very specific issue that you’re bringing awareness to. I think that it’s important for leadership to go out and make sure that their people are supported in this initiative, making sure that they’re setting the right behaviors. Thank you for bringing that up.

Strategy Fitness Program

I see a strong partnership with one of our former speakers. Andrea Pap wanted to join us. She is about wellness and wellness coaching. I even personally have been looking at my time blocks throughout the day to be more effective in 90-minute time blocks, assuring I get some sunshine in the day and getting the right diet throughout the day. Getting some fitness and exercise. I have some work to do. That’s why I like this new program at Strategic Thinking Institute because it’s called the Strategy Fitness program or platform looking at your overall fitness, not only as an operation or business but also your personal health and type of well-being. I think that executives who are top performers have started to refine that and take a look at themselves. 

Is that a workshop shop that the institute provides? 

Absolutely. In fact, now I’m a strategic skills consultant. I do a lot of business development and that type of thing. They have a strategic fitness platform. I love it because 1) It educates executives on how to be strategic. It provides all the tools, templates and all those tools that teach you how to utilize them. If you have a chief officer of strategy or somebody that’s in line with strategy, I see a strong partnership with strategy and talent management in learning development and organizational development. If you have a platform like this, and I’m not here to sell that platform, and I’m telling you, it’s one place that you can house all of those things, you can keep all your strategies and things like I’m talking about housed in one spot, your competitive advantage, market analysis, all of those, your business model and refining your business model. 

That needs to be refined throughout the years. If anybody is interested in some of these free resources and free demos that I’m talking about, particularly the Strategy Institute, get on LinkedIn and find me Char Miller, HR of the Heart. You’ll find me out there, message me and I’ll send you. It was exciting, and I’m super thrilled because I started working with these folks. They gave me resources and I went through something called the Strategy Man. What’s super cool about this is it’s entertaining. It’s like a comic book, but it goes through all the principles of strategy. There are these types of demons out there that are sabotage your strategy plan and then you got your superheroes that come in and save the day. I don’t think it’s a generational thing because I’m 53 and I found it super fun and exciting. I was looking at this like, “Super cool. Now I’m a strategy woman. I have a superpower.” 

Is this a learning resource? Is it a video course?

Particularly on Strategy Man and the Strategic Fitness System are learning platforms, education videos and practice quizzes throughout. You get little badges that inspire you to proceed and then places to house your progress in your development. I put myself through this because I want to start working with this company. I’m honored to do so. I’ve literally been crushing late at night trying to get through these programs and I’m impressed with myself. I think I can articulate strategy better than I used to before. I’m not there yet.

It would probably take many months, but the platform and the learning modules. The Strategy Thinking Institute offers workshops and keynote speeches. It’s six national bestselling books. My email has the hyperlinks to those books. If anybody would like free chapters on those books, maybe a free demo, any of those types of things, or a one-on-one with me, I’d be happy to discuss with you, particularly in my expertise, and talent management strategy in partnership with CompTeam. The Strategy Thinking Institute is a way to have that competitive advantage. If anyone’s interested, you could message me and I’ll be happy to forward those things over or you even collaborate. 

Closing Words

You’ve given us a lot of things to think about. I’m super excited to know more from Rich Horwath in the Strategic Strategic Thinking Institute and your experience with them. I think that we should do another show with Rich and you talking about some of those resources. That’d be great.

I appreciate that, and I know he will as well. He was a great guest speaker. The marriage of all of these things are vital in talking about these crucial topics is important. If anybody wants to get the competitive edge and up your game, these are the things we can do. Thank you. We’d love to do that with CompTeam. 

Thanks for your time. This is a great topic. I know that it deeply needs some awareness. Thank you for bringing that to our readers. 

Thank you. It has been my pleasure working with you for the last several years. I’m excited that we’ll continue.

Take care and we’ll see everyone in the next episode. Bye. 

Bye. 

Important Links:

• HR With A Heart – LinkedIn
• Char Miller – LinkedIn

About Char Miller

Char Miller, founder of HR with a Heart, is a human resources consultant, business owner, and Chief Human Resources Officer at Rocky Mountain Health Advocates. She left the corporate world in 2016 when hit with multiple life-changing events and no support from her “heartless” HR team, and set out to re-create a whole new corporate world. She established “HR with a Heart” to help people navigate HR from the inside out and provide career coaching.